Tuesday, October 05, 2004
Kerry and I seem to be in the same boat:
Me: what I sent to the Democrats: “It was a mistake to outsource the job of encircling Bin Laden at Tora Bora to the Northern Alliance. The world’s most powerful army would have done a better job.”
Kerry: “I would not take my eye off of the goal: Osama bin Laden. Unfortunately, he escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. We had him surrounded. But we didn't use American forces, the best trained in the world, to go kill him. The president relied on Afghan warlords and he outsourced that job too. That's wrong.”
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=271, “Kerry said U.S. forces allowed Osama bin Laden to escape in 2001 during the battle at Tora Bora in Afghanistan because the administration "outsourced" fighting to Afghan "warlords." Actually, it's never been clear whether bin Laden actually was at Tora Bora. It is true that military leaders strongly suspected bin Laden was there, and it is also true that the Pentagon relied heavily on Afghan forces to take on much of the fighting at Tora Bora in an effort to reduce US casualties. But Kerry overstates the case by stating flatly that "we had him surrounded."
Liberal oasis came pretty close to saying what I did back in July.
http://www.liberaloasis.com/archives/070404.htm
“What's interesting is that the Bushies are still outsourcing the Get Osama operation.
Sure, this excerpt from TNR sounds particularly conspiratorial:
...according to this ISI [Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence] official, a White House aide told [ISI director Lt. Gen. Ehsan] ul-Haq last spring that "it would be best if the arrest or killing of [any] HVT were announced on twenty-six, twenty-seven, or twenty-eight July"--the first three days of the Democratic National Convention in Boston.
But it's also pathetic.
The Bushies don't have much control over the situation if they have to ask another country to deliver the goods by a certain date, instead of taking the lead themselves.”
What I said about outsourcing is Tora Bora is later logically implied. “This same mistake was made in 2001 at Tora Bora, where we hired Afghan warlords to nab Osama, and they proceeded to help him escape.”
I take issue with some of what factcheck.org has to say: First: the administration is on record as saying on numerous occasions that they think Bin Laden was there, esteemed newspapers said so as do Taliban and Al Qaeda prisoners and so for that matter does Bin Laden http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2751019.stm : Christian Science Monitor from the link given above for example: “And on Nov 29, Vice President Dick Cheney told ABC's "Primetime Live" that, according to the reports that were coming in, bin Laden was in Tora Bora."I think he was equipped to go to ground there," Mr. Cheney said. "He's got what he believes to be a fairly secure facility. He's got caves underground; it's an area he's familiar with.
Meanwhile, in the weeks following bin Laden's arrival at the Tora Bora caves, morale slipped under the constant air assault. One group of Yemeni fighters, squirreled away in a cave they had been assigned to by the Al Qaeda chief, had not seen bin Laden since entering on Nov. 13.
But they say bin Laden joined them on Nov. 26, the 11th day of Ramadan, a warm glass of green tea in his hand. Instead of inspiring the elite fighters, he was now reduced, they say, to repeating the same "holy war" diatribe.
Around him that day sat three of his most loyal fighters, including Abu Baker, a square-faced man with a rough-hewn scruff on his chin."[Bin Laden] said, 'hold your positions firm and be ready for martyrdom,' " Baker told Afghan intelligence officers when he was captured in mid-December. "He said, 'I'll be visiting you again, very soon.' " Then, as quickly as he had come, Baker says, bin Laden vanished into the pine forests.”
It seems I did “overstate” it when I said Bin Laden was encircled. That though is worse for the Americans. Routes that should have been blocked off were not and some Al Qaeda troops left via these routes. Others escaped as is generally known by bribing Hazret Ali and his men.
By the way: for those of you who love Rumsfailed, Bin Laden mocked his air power and outsourced milita plan at Tora Bora:
"Trench warfare
We also realized that one of the most effective and available methods of rendering the air force of the crusader enemy ineffective is by setting up roofed and disguised trenches in large numbers.
I had referred to that in a previous statement during the Tora Bora battle last year.
In that great battle, faith triumphed over all the materialistic forces of the people of evil, for principles were adhered to, thanks to God Almighty.
I will narrate to you part of that great battle, to show how cowardly they are on the one hand, and how effective trenches are in exhausting them on the other.
We were about 300 mujahideen [Islamic militants].We dug 100 trenches that were spread in an area that does not exceed one square mile, one trench for every three brothers, so as to avoid the huge human losses resulting from the bombardment.
Since the first hour of the US campaign on 20 Rajab 1422, corresponding to 7 October 2001, our centres were exposed to a concentrated bombardment.
And this bombardment continued until mid-Ramadan.
On 17 Ramadan, a very fierce bombardment began, particularly after the US command was certain that some of al-Qaeda leaders were still in Tora Bora, including the humble servant to God [referring to himself] and the brother mujahid Dr Ayman al-Zawahiri.
The bombardment was round-the-clock and the warplanes continued to fly over us day and night.
War in Afghanistan
The US Pentagon, together with its allies, worked full time on blowing up and destroying this small spot, as well as on removing it entirely.
Planes poured their lava on us, particularly after accomplishing their main missions in Afghanistan.
The US forces attacked us with smart bombs, bombs that weigh thousands of pounds, cluster bombs, and bunker busters.
Bombers, like the B-52, used to fly over head for more than two hours and drop between 20 to 30 bombs at a time.
The modified C-130 aircraft kept carpet-bombing us at night, using modern types of bombs.
The US forces dared not break into our positions, despite the unprecedented massive bombing and terrible propaganda targeting this completely besieged small area.
This is in addition to the forces of hypocrites, whom they prodded to fight us for 15 days non-stop.
Every time the latter attacked us, we forced them out of our area carrying their dead and wounded.
'Alliance of evil'
Is there any clearer evidence of their cowardice, fear, and lies regarding their legends about their alleged power.
To sum it up, the battle resulted in the complete failure of the international alliance of evil, with all its forces, [to overcome] a small number of mujahideen - 300 mujahideen hunkered down in trenches spread over an area of one square mile under a temperature of -10 degrees Celsius.
The battle resulted in the injury of 6% of personnel - we hope God will accept them as martyrs - and the damage of two percent of the trenches, praise be to God.
If all the world forces of evil could not achieve their goals on a one square mile of area against a small number of mujahideen with very limited capabilities, how can these evil forces triumph over the Muslim world?
This is impossible, God willing, if people adhere to their religion and insist on jihad for its sake."
Me: what I sent to the Democrats: “It was a mistake to outsource the job of encircling Bin Laden at Tora Bora to the Northern Alliance. The world’s most powerful army would have done a better job.”
Kerry: “I would not take my eye off of the goal: Osama bin Laden. Unfortunately, he escaped in the mountains of Tora Bora. We had him surrounded. But we didn't use American forces, the best trained in the world, to go kill him. The president relied on Afghan warlords and he outsourced that job too. That's wrong.”
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=271, “Kerry said U.S. forces allowed Osama bin Laden to escape in 2001 during the battle at Tora Bora in Afghanistan because the administration "outsourced" fighting to Afghan "warlords." Actually, it's never been clear whether bin Laden actually was at Tora Bora. It is true that military leaders strongly suspected bin Laden was there, and it is also true that the Pentagon relied heavily on Afghan forces to take on much of the fighting at Tora Bora in an effort to reduce US casualties. But Kerry overstates the case by stating flatly that "we had him surrounded."
Liberal oasis came pretty close to saying what I did back in July.
http://www.liberaloasis.com/archives/070404.htm
“What's interesting is that the Bushies are still outsourcing the Get Osama operation.
Sure, this excerpt from TNR sounds particularly conspiratorial:
...according to this ISI [Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence] official, a White House aide told [ISI director Lt. Gen. Ehsan] ul-Haq last spring that "it would be best if the arrest or killing of [any] HVT were announced on twenty-six, twenty-seven, or twenty-eight July"--the first three days of the Democratic National Convention in Boston.
But it's also pathetic.
The Bushies don't have much control over the situation if they have to ask another country to deliver the goods by a certain date, instead of taking the lead themselves.”
What I said about outsourcing is Tora Bora is later logically implied. “This same mistake was made in 2001 at Tora Bora, where we hired Afghan warlords to nab Osama, and they proceeded to help him escape.”
I take issue with some of what factcheck.org has to say: First: the administration is on record as saying on numerous occasions that they think Bin Laden was there, esteemed newspapers said so as do Taliban and Al Qaeda prisoners and so for that matter does Bin Laden http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2751019.stm : Christian Science Monitor from the link given above for example: “And on Nov 29, Vice President Dick Cheney told ABC's "Primetime Live" that, according to the reports that were coming in, bin Laden was in Tora Bora."I think he was equipped to go to ground there," Mr. Cheney said. "He's got what he believes to be a fairly secure facility. He's got caves underground; it's an area he's familiar with.
Meanwhile, in the weeks following bin Laden's arrival at the Tora Bora caves, morale slipped under the constant air assault. One group of Yemeni fighters, squirreled away in a cave they had been assigned to by the Al Qaeda chief, had not seen bin Laden since entering on Nov. 13.
But they say bin Laden joined them on Nov. 26, the 11th day of Ramadan, a warm glass of green tea in his hand. Instead of inspiring the elite fighters, he was now reduced, they say, to repeating the same "holy war" diatribe.
Around him that day sat three of his most loyal fighters, including Abu Baker, a square-faced man with a rough-hewn scruff on his chin."[Bin Laden] said, 'hold your positions firm and be ready for martyrdom,' " Baker told Afghan intelligence officers when he was captured in mid-December. "He said, 'I'll be visiting you again, very soon.' " Then, as quickly as he had come, Baker says, bin Laden vanished into the pine forests.”
It seems I did “overstate” it when I said Bin Laden was encircled. That though is worse for the Americans. Routes that should have been blocked off were not and some Al Qaeda troops left via these routes. Others escaped as is generally known by bribing Hazret Ali and his men.
By the way: for those of you who love Rumsfailed, Bin Laden mocked his air power and outsourced milita plan at Tora Bora:
"Trench warfare
We also realized that one of the most effective and available methods of rendering the air force of the crusader enemy ineffective is by setting up roofed and disguised trenches in large numbers.
I had referred to that in a previous statement during the Tora Bora battle last year.
In that great battle, faith triumphed over all the materialistic forces of the people of evil, for principles were adhered to, thanks to God Almighty.
I will narrate to you part of that great battle, to show how cowardly they are on the one hand, and how effective trenches are in exhausting them on the other.
We were about 300 mujahideen [Islamic militants].We dug 100 trenches that were spread in an area that does not exceed one square mile, one trench for every three brothers, so as to avoid the huge human losses resulting from the bombardment.
Since the first hour of the US campaign on 20 Rajab 1422, corresponding to 7 October 2001, our centres were exposed to a concentrated bombardment.
And this bombardment continued until mid-Ramadan.
On 17 Ramadan, a very fierce bombardment began, particularly after the US command was certain that some of al-Qaeda leaders were still in Tora Bora, including the humble servant to God [referring to himself] and the brother mujahid Dr Ayman al-Zawahiri.
The bombardment was round-the-clock and the warplanes continued to fly over us day and night.
War in Afghanistan
The US Pentagon, together with its allies, worked full time on blowing up and destroying this small spot, as well as on removing it entirely.
Planes poured their lava on us, particularly after accomplishing their main missions in Afghanistan.
The US forces attacked us with smart bombs, bombs that weigh thousands of pounds, cluster bombs, and bunker busters.
Bombers, like the B-52, used to fly over head for more than two hours and drop between 20 to 30 bombs at a time.
The modified C-130 aircraft kept carpet-bombing us at night, using modern types of bombs.
The US forces dared not break into our positions, despite the unprecedented massive bombing and terrible propaganda targeting this completely besieged small area.
This is in addition to the forces of hypocrites, whom they prodded to fight us for 15 days non-stop.
Every time the latter attacked us, we forced them out of our area carrying their dead and wounded.
'Alliance of evil'
Is there any clearer evidence of their cowardice, fear, and lies regarding their legends about their alleged power.
To sum it up, the battle resulted in the complete failure of the international alliance of evil, with all its forces, [to overcome] a small number of mujahideen - 300 mujahideen hunkered down in trenches spread over an area of one square mile under a temperature of -10 degrees Celsius.
The battle resulted in the injury of 6% of personnel - we hope God will accept them as martyrs - and the damage of two percent of the trenches, praise be to God.
If all the world forces of evil could not achieve their goals on a one square mile of area against a small number of mujahideen with very limited capabilities, how can these evil forces triumph over the Muslim world?
This is impossible, God willing, if people adhere to their religion and insist on jihad for its sake."
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